Movieblob

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rabidtictac
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Re: Movieblob

Post by rabidtictac » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:55 pm

The lack of breathable atmosphere would probably make terraforming efforts pretty futile. That and extreme weather. You need life for a breathable atmosphere, but whatever life you seed has to be cool with the environment and survive in extreme weather. Even on Earth, there are places which are almost entirely uninhabited by any form of life. That's WITH a breathable atmosphere, which those other planets don't have.

Then there's the temperature issue. If you're going to have a completely enclosed/closed system, like a space station or moon base, it needs to be durable enough to withstand the weather outside. On the moon, probably no issues. But on Mars or another planet, sheeeit.

I'm not even sure there's a point to terraforming a planet at all. You end up importing so much shit that you may as well grab a stable moon or try for a space station in a stable orbit around a nearby planet. The weather down on the surface is just going to fuck all your shit up constantly anyway, and you can build your space station as big as you want, with as many rooms for agriculture as you need. The only thing the planet adds is whatever resources it already had before you got there.

Strip-mining planets would probably be the way to go. Even then, you have to wonder if the energy expenditure could be worth the return.
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drisko
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Re: Movieblob

Post by drisko » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:29 am

I reckon we won't get to terraforming until we get AI that can do the work for us. Even when we're finally able to make a round trip to Mars, there's too much work required that even if you left a bunch of people on the red planet with the necessary skill set to make a habitable environment, like a closed in base, they'd have limited resources and no ability to create new ones. If a problem comes up, even if NASA is sending regular supply drops, any request would take a year at least.

Of course, Bob saw The Martian and assumes that all we need to do is give NASA more money and we'll have that glorious Star Trek future he wants.

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Keith Chegwin
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Re: Movieblob

Post by Keith Chegwin » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:56 am

Kugelfisch wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:54 pm
What is there to gain from living on the moon? Why would anyone terraform it? The effort and costs are just plain not worth it.
Population of Earth is nearing 10 billion. Assuming no nuclear disasters or no widespread plagues or diseases that wipe out half of humanity, we'll eventually need some Lebensraum.
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Kugelfisch
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Re: Movieblob

Post by Kugelfisch » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:44 pm

Keith Chegwin wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:56 am
Kugelfisch wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:54 pm
What is there to gain from living on the moon? Why would anyone terraform it? The effort and costs are just plain not worth it.
Population of Earth is nearing 10 billion. Assuming no nuclear disasters or no widespread plagues or diseases that wipe out half of humanity, we'll eventually need some Lebensraum.
If all one needs is space then we've got PLENTY of that here already. Look at Siberia, Mongolia and large parts of China. More space than we'd know what to do with. Besides that, population doesn't just grow with no end in sight. Eventually, there won't be enough food and excess people would just starve.
The moon doesn't even have usable soil. It's a shitter place to live than any place on this planet. Much more could be accomplished by putting the effort and resources into making more territory on this planet habitable than on a rock with close to no gravity.

Who'd get to go to the moon anyway? Thousands or millions of people? I highly doubt that. If some place would be made habitable on the moon with a station or something it would be there for the toppest elite only while everyone else would remain on Terra and have to deal with it. There won't be some refugees going with a shitty boat to the moon.
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Keith Chegwin
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Re: Movieblob

Post by Keith Chegwin » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:59 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:44 pm
If all one needs is space then we've got PLENTY of that here already. Look at Siberia, Mongolia and large parts of China. More space than we'd know what to do with.

Siberia's practically uninhabitable. You'd have to make it habitable. If you can make Siberia, or any of the uninhabitable regions of Earth habitable eventually someone will set their sites on space.
Kugelfisch wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:44 pm
Besides that, population doesn't just grow with no end in sight. Eventually, there won't be enough food and excess people would just starve.

Normally, yes. But we can genetically engineer crops now. Various advances in science and technology would keep the population numbers from limiting themselves. Which is why it would be down to nuclear disaster or serious disease to keep human population in check.
Kugelfisch wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:44 pm
Who'd get to go to the moon anyway? Thousands or millions of people? I highly doubt that. If some place would be made habitable on the moon with a station or something it would be there for the toppest elite only while everyone else would remain on Terra and have to deal with it. There won't be some refugees going with a shitty boat to the moon.
Well, going by the Japanese anime (namely Gundam and Policenauts) you'd send the shit people there. Humans are adapted to living on Earth and you'd probably need a shit-ton of medications to live in space, not to mention you'd have to change your lifestyle drastically and give up a lot of luxuries. So, the only elites that are going to live there really are going to be the ones who do it so they can say they were the first people to live in space.
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Imagine spending a billion US dollars to be a loser. Could've watched animu and be one for free.

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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Movieblob

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:13 pm

rabidtictac wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:55 pm
Strip-mining planets would probably be the way to go. Even then, you have to wonder if the energy expenditure could be worth the return.
I guess it's kinda feasible if you use the resources on site, for like a space station.
drisko wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:29 am
Of course, Bob saw The Martian and assumes that all we need to do is give NASA more money and we'll have that glorious Star Trek future he wants.
Dunno what idea he got from the movie, but the book didn't really make it look like we're going to live there anytime soon.
Keith Chegwin wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:59 pm
Well, going by the Japanese anime (namely Gundam and Policenauts) you'd send the shit people there. Humans are adapted to living on Earth and you'd probably need a shit-ton of medications to live in space, not to mention you'd have to change your lifestyle drastically and give up a lot of luxuries. So, the only elites that are going to live there really are going to be the ones who do it so they can say they were the first people to live in space.
My bet's on rich people, scientists and technicians. You don't spend so much time and resources into creating Space Australia.
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Kugelfisch
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Re: Movieblob

Post by Kugelfisch » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Keith Chegwin wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:59 pm
Well, going by the Japanese anime (namely Gundam and Policenauts) you'd send the shit people there.
Shit's expensive and will always be more expensive than a bullet per person and a very large hole.
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Charlar
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Re: Movieblob

Post by Charlar » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:40 pm

All of this is fine but let's focus on the problems we face now before getting involved with hypothetical ones
-On the internet, everyone end up being Spoony or Tim Buckley
-All fanbases are shit
-Most people had, have and will have shit tastes

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Kugelfisch
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Re: Movieblob

Post by Kugelfisch » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:53 pm

I think my "one bullet, one hole" 1-in-all solution will eventually catch on and be all the rage. People love overly simplistic solutions for complicated problems.
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rabidtictac
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Re: Movieblob

Post by rabidtictac » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:08 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:53 pm
I think my "one bullet, one hole" 1-in-all solution will eventually catch on and be all the rage. People love overly simplistic solutions for complicated problems.
I was going to say. More than likely we'll get some big event that dramatically reduces surplus populations.

Another huge problem with terraforming is the energy situation. You can't go around using fossil fuels, a non-renewable resource, to generate all your energy for mining rocks/ice. I guess you could use solar energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail

But you'd need some sort of system that uses solar energy for all operations.
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>liberal: ban x
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