Especially shit like Telltale.
Jim Spergling
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Re: Jim Spergling
Yeah the only reason let's player's have been getting away with it is because both the creator and the youtuber get money, so everyone ends up winning. It's sorta a unspoken agreement between the two. Bain is right in saying they are not under fair use, and there's a reason why shit like mystery science theater was so cheap was because they were using a lot of cheap licenses or public domain to show the WHOLE THING.rabidtictac wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:07 pm
This is one of those issues that has been "let lie." People assumed fair use would protect in all situations, no matter if someone was making their entire living off of playing 100% of someone else's intellectual property. It's hard to look at a DSP let's play and say that shit is 100% fair use to make his entire living off of. He does very little to "transform" the end product.
People like spergling won was because digital homocide were complete morons and tried to sue everyone on a public review forum, which I'm still shaming valve on not counter suing them to protect there users.
SpoilerShow
Re: Jim Spergling
AlsoKugelfisch wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:15 pm>we gave away 3000 copies of our walking simulator as an attempt to buy shills that way
>making video games is so hard buuhuu
>people say mean stuff about our games buhuuuuhuuu
>we're part of the indie circlejerk and will try to abuse that against anyone we don't like
Lads, that's the cancer killing vidya we're looking at. Death to the indie scene!
>we know we made money off this so let us observe a moment of guilt before we proceed to keep every penny.
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Re: Jim Spergling
But you said you never wanted to buy the game to begin with. So did the LP actually harm the commercial value for you, as it simply resulted in you not purchasing a game you wouldn't have purchased if not for the LP?rabidtictac wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:24 amI watched a complete Let's Play of Silent Hill 2 years ago. I never bought the game and never wanted to. If I want to experience the game again, I can go watch a let's play of it.An argument against many of the "reviewers" like the Nostalgia Critic being fair use is that, due to showing so much of the film and summarizing what happens, they remove any desire to watch the thing because you've already experienced it, by and large. How true is this for Let's Plays? How many people who might have bought the game watch and Let's Play and think "well, I've experienced the whole game, so no need to buy it and play it?" I expect it's less than what you'd find for Nostalgia Critic episodes.
Not every game is like that, but some definitely are.
True.
False. Anyone who says of LPs that "they are not under fair use" is just offering a guess, and if they're not a lawyer, it's not even an educated guess (note this also applies for anyone who claims they are under fair use). These is largely uncharted waters due to the relatively unique status of a game compared to prior media. There isn't any real precedent for this kind of thing. So no one knows for sure what the outcome of such a case would be.Bain is right in saying they are not under fair use, and there's a reason why shit like mystery science theater was so cheap was because they were using a lot of cheap licenses or public domain to show the WHOLE THING.
Unless by "they're not fair use" you mean they haven't been proven to be fair use, which is of course true.
In regards to Mystery Science Theater 3000, it did have to get the licenses, but Mystery Science Theater 3000 also did, in showing the whole movie (sometimes with a few edits), actually distribute the entire movie. An LP does not distribute the entire game because it lacks the code base that allows someone to actually play it. How fundamental is that regarded when it comes to copyright? I don't know. But I don't think MST3K is a good analogy because of the major difference in mediums.
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Re: Jim Spergling
I think you misunderstood me, random guy. I never bought the game and, after watching the LP, didn't want to. I DID want to buy the game at first, and probably would have, but when I saw the let's play, I saw everything the game had to offer. There was no reason to buy Silent Hill 2 after seeing the story.
Any game that has mediocre gameplay is a good candidate for this to happen with. Any story-heavy game is the same way. I'm just giving one concrete example I know of. Sometimes watching a game makes me want to buy it. But sometimes you can get near 100% of the game experience by watching someone else.
Any game that has mediocre gameplay is a good candidate for this to happen with. Any story-heavy game is the same way. I'm just giving one concrete example I know of. Sometimes watching a game makes me want to buy it. But sometimes you can get near 100% of the game experience by watching someone else.
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Re: Jim Spergling
Ah, I see what you're saying. But seeing the LP and deciding the game doesn't look interesting is different than seeing the LP and deciding you've gotten the full experience. It's like how a negative review of something doesn't suddenly violate fair use just because it might make people not want to see/buy whatever is being reviewed.rabidtictac wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:43 amI think you misunderstood me, random guy. I never bought the game and, after watching the LP, didn't want to. I DID want to buy the game at first, and probably would have, but when I saw the let's play, I saw everything the game had to offer. There was no reason to buy Silent Hill 2 after seeing the story.
Any game that has mediocre gameplay is a good candidate for this to happen with. Any story-heavy game is the same way. I'm just giving one concrete example I know of. Sometimes watching a game makes me want to buy it. But sometimes you can get near 100% of the game experience by watching someone else.
For the record, here's a statement from an actual lawyer regarding fair use and LPs:
So isn’t my [insert genre of video] transformative? I talked over their video, added my webcam in the bottom left corner, and a bunch of other things.
The true answer? We don’t know yet! Fair use, again, is a defense that has to be tested in court, and as of now we don’t know where the line is with the internet. “Let’s Play” videos are incredibly popular and will one day, in my opinion, be the test case. Sure, you are adding commentary and showing yourself on camera, but at the end of the day you are just using someone else’s IP as the root of your video. So have you added enough? At what point does a video become transformative? I don’t know, but I promise it’s not up to YouTube to decide.
Nintendo has been clear they control what’s in Nintendo Let’s Play videos, and so far they haven’t been proven wrong. The great T.L. Taylor was the first person to try and convince me all of these video genres are transformative, and with each passing day I’m tending to agree with her more and more. That said, I don’t get to make the law either.
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Re: Jim Spergling
Sure, but I'm saying a lot of LPs essentially provide the full experience because the gameplay is either shit or minimal.Just Some Random Guy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:52 amAh, I see what you're saying. But seeing the LP and deciding the game doesn't look interesting is different than seeing the LP and deciding you've gotten the full experience.rabidtictac wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:43 amI think you misunderstood me, random guy. I never bought the game and, after watching the LP, didn't want to. I DID want to buy the game at first, and probably would have, but when I saw the let's play, I saw everything the game had to offer. There was no reason to buy Silent Hill 2 after seeing the story.
Any game that has mediocre gameplay is a good candidate for this to happen with. Any story-heavy game is the same way. I'm just giving one concrete example I know of. Sometimes watching a game makes me want to buy it. But sometimes you can get near 100% of the game experience by watching someone else.
Also, it's not exactly the same as a review, since the review only provides a sampling. A let's play of a shit game will show you all of that shit game. It's not just selected parts taken out to highlight a review.
Re: Jim Spergling
And this stupid cunt is filing a DMCA? He gave legal permission for ANYONE to stream his game, you bet PewDiePie will give this to his lawyer and fuck the guys lawsuit in the ass right then and there. PewDiePie may as well file a counter claim since the dev game legal permission for EVERYONE to stream the game at the time and as of this post, still does.Guest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:37 amThey already gave permission to stream Firewatch and profit from it.
From the Firewatch FAQ (archive.is):
Can I stream this game? Can I make money off of those streams?
Yes. We love that people stream and share their experiences in the game. You are free to monetize your videos as well.
It doesn't hurt to let us know on Twitter when you're live. We might show up in your chat!
When it comes to Let's Plays being transformative/fair use, it heavily depends on the nature of the game. Playing Minecraft or fucking around in an open world game? That is very clearly transformative and isn't replacing an experience the developer intended. But playing some linear walking simulator piece of shit or something heavily story driven with next to no gameplay? That isn't transformative since as Tictac said, every cunt will play the game that way so you aren't doing much different that the developer intended. LPs haven't seen their day in court, but I think once they do it will really be a case by case basis that depends on the type of game rather than all LPs getting their ass banned.
Old Black Man wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:11 pmAlso Lupa’s grandmother? Please, we know that hag was alive and well back then. She’s like the dude from Highlander, only a cunt.
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Re: Jim Spergling
You know the first thing that'll be brought up if it goes to court is why Firewatch Devcuck wrote that shit if he wanted to reserve the right to DMCA streamers and let's players. I think the judge won't take kindly to that.
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