Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Whine and Bitch about people long after they become interesting to talk about
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veris leta facies
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by veris leta facies » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:14 pm

Just Some Random Guy wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:15 pm
veris leta facies wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:31 am
Just Some Random Guy wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:10 am
China is communist in name only at this point.
China has come far from the traditional Marxism-Leninism, but it's still legit to call it a communist state. For instance you can't really own anything in there, when you buy a property you'll only get a 70 year lease. What happens to your property after 70 years? Who knows.
After doing some research, it seems that after 70 years, you can renew the lease; in fact, the local governments are apparently required to allow a renewal of the lease. What's uncertain right now is exactly what process that would undergo to renew, and how much (if anything) someone would have to pay to renew it. Supposedly clearer guidelines are being worked on. As the leases started being given in the 1990's, though, the 70-year leases won't be expiring for another 40-50 years.
Also, their corrupted totalitarian 1-party regime with total control over economy, media and military, that's very communismish.
Oh, China certainly isn't anything close to democratic. But what you describe are general traits of a dictatorship, including those that aren't communist. And at this point, China doesn't have total control over economy, or at least isn't exerting full control, as the Chinese economy has become increasingly privatized as well as there being dramatically increased foreign investment. I'm not saying there isn't plenty of government control of the economy, but there's too much privatization in my view to properly call it communist or even communist-ish.

I suppose China does have complete control over the economy in that, if they wanted, they could step in and control anything, but that's really true of any dictatorship, communist or not.
That's the thing with these 70-year leases, it's all just speculation, no one knows for sure what will happen after the leases expire. The CCP allows the owners to renew their leases just like that? It was all just some extra unnecessary bureaucracy? Yes, I'll believe it when I see it. I've talked with some Chinese about this issue and they generally tend to have this childlike positive attitude towards everything their communist overlords decide, not a big deal to them, just some little paperwork after 70 years and all live happily ever after. I myself don't believe anything the CCP says.

Communism isn't just a form of economic system, it is also a form of society with the centralized political rule of a communist party. Not all dictatorships are communist, but all communist systems are dictatorships.
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Le Redditeur
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Le Redditeur » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:13 pm

I've read somewhere that Socialism in general cannot work because you give to a single social enitity (the State) both economical AND political power, which is bound to tilt it towards a dictatorship.

Capitalism can have the same problems, if corporations take control of the government, but even so, that control will always be indirect; the government always has the option to shake off that control because it has the monopoly of legal use of force.

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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by MegaNigger » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:42 pm

Le Redditeur wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:13 pm
I've read somewhere that Socialism in general cannot work because you give to a single social enitity (the State) both economical AND political power, which is bound to tilt it towards a dictatorship.

Capitalism can have the same problems, if corporations take control of the government, but even so, that control will always be indirect; the government always has the option to shake off that control because it has the monopoly of legal use of force.
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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:08 pm

Giving any single executive entity absolute power is just asking for trouble.
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Kugelfisch » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:31 pm

Le Redditeur wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:13 pm
I've read somewhere that Socialism in general cannot work because you give to a single social enitity (the State) both economical AND political power, which is bound to tilt it towards a dictatorship.
I find the argument that capitalism actually forces companies to do good, at least sometimes, very compelling. If you're not okay with the morality of a company you can just buy from a different company. No company can go full on evil, even if they wanted to. They would ruin themselves.
See how shitty Coca Cola is. Imagine how shitty they would be if they not only had a monopoly but were a state institution that doesn't like to be talked badly about.

Communism also fails because of human nature. You're always seeking to better your situation. If money isn't worth anything because you can't buy jack shit with it and work doesn't enable that either, there's just the party left. Corruption is 100% guaranteed within a very short time and with pretty much zero repercussions.
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Charlar
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Charlar » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:43 pm

Reminder thar Corporatism and Capitalism aren't the same
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Guest » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:08 pm

veris leta facies wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:14 pm

That's the thing with these 70-year leases, it's all just speculation, no one knows for sure what will happen after the leases expire. The CCP allows the owners to renew their leases just like that? It was all just some extra unnecessary bureaucracy? Yes, I'll believe it when I see it. I've talked with some Chinese about this issue and they generally tend to have this childlike positive attitude towards everything their communist overlords decide, not a big deal to them, just some little paperwork after 70 years and all live happily ever after. I myself don't believe anything the CCP says.

Communism isn't just a form of economic system, it is also a form of society with the centralized political rule of a communist party. Not all dictatorships are communist, but all communist systems are dictatorships.
The thing is, screwing with the loans too much will probably totally wreck their economy a la Venezuela/every other communist country ever. The smart thing would be to just renew them and line their pockets with the renewal fees. It all comes down to whether the current regime is stupid or petty enough to ruin the economy or if they'll have the sense to stick with what works.

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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Just Some Random Guy » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:12 pm

Le Redditeur wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:13 pm
I've read somewhere that Socialism in general cannot work because you give to a single social enitity (the State) both economical AND political power, which is bound to tilt it towards a dictatorship.
A lot depends on what you mean by "socialism." For example, I've seen many call the Scandinavian countries socialist, but they're democracies, not dictatorships.

But if we're talking about socialism as in full-on communism, like the USSR or pre-reform China, then it pretty much does lead to a dictatorship. Which is ironic, because communism is supposed to lead to a super-great anarchy. But I don't think that's the reason it doesn't work, exactly. A dictatorship can actually function just fine as long as the right people are in charge of it, and in fact work better than a democracy because they can work on making things run right without having to worry about posturing to the voters. The problem is there's a big emphasis on "as long as the right people are in charge of it" because not only does that tend to not happen, a current dictator being a great leader has no guarantee of their successor being any good (one can certainly find examples of monarchies where a capable leader's replacement was incompetent)

No, the fundamental problem with communism is that markets are big, complicated things. Way too big for just a few people in government to figure everything out for. This leads to issues with production, where things people don't want are overproduced and things people really want are underproduced. Not only that, because there's just one "company" making all the decisions, you don't have the option to go to another one that didn't screw it up. This results in constant shortages (as well as overproduction) because incorrect decisions were made regarding how much of any particular item to create. You can easily find accounts of this sort of thing by people who lived in the USSR, China (especially before the country moved more towards free market), or every free market advocate's favorite punching bag, Venezuela.

Fun fact: On a diplomatic trip to the United States, Boris Yeltsin happened to visit a grocery store and was completely awestruck by the sheer quantity and variety of food that was available in it compared to what was available anywhere in Russia under communism. This was a major factor in his decision to end communism.

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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Poonoo » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:39 am

Charlar wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:43 pm
Reminder thar Corporatism and Capitalism aren't the same
Yeah, though the problem is a lot of Libertarians have no issue with lobbies throwing cash candidates which makes their bitching about corporatism fucking useless. I'd make lobbies fucking illegal, not a cent should go to any party or candidate, and instead the top 10 parties/candidates ranked by the amount of registered members get an equal split of money to spend on their campaign from the government. This would guarantee that the people in charge don't have a direct financial incentive to be pro-corporate cunts, and people who are efficient with money will be rewarded rather than fuckers who ask for more money to spend like crazy on their campaign. Most countries have debt because the people in charge run their campaigns the same way they run the government, endless loans and no attempt to manage their funds.
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Re: Nasty Cockslut aka Uncle Linky

Post by Cuckara » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:20 pm

Are you ready?

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