Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Talk about the life consuming, celibacy inducing hobby that is all the rage these days.
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rabidtictac
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by rabidtictac » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:50 am

They'd rather chase those scam and shovelware dollarinos from day-one Early Access alphas that never get finished.

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Some Sick Fuck
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by Some Sick Fuck » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:47 am

da PAC Nigguh wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:36 pm

This, personally, is what killed it for me the most. EVERYTHING is fucking Early Access now. I don't even browse the store anymore. Anything that caught my attention ended up being Early Access shit when I clicked on it.
Of course it isn't. I don't browse the store either, because if you look at new releases, it's just too much stuff to make any sense of it. There is a lot of Early Access stuff, yes, and in case of some games that interest me, I'll just add them to wishlist and get reminded about them if they happen to finish them. I mostly don't like to play EA because the games are unfinished, it's not even about me not trusting the developers, I try to pick carefully what I'm going to play, and to play a demo isn't always for me, because if I happen to like the game, then I want to get into the full experience. That's why I mostly don't do EA.
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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:10 pm

rabidtictac wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:50 am
They'd rather chase those scam and shovelware dollarinos from day-one Early Access alphas that never get finished.
Either because the developers are trolls / scam artist, or incompetent fools who realized too late that using your one-time Patreon buck influx or your Early Access sales to fund your development is bound too fail if development takes too long and you run out of cash.

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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by Poonoo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:16 am

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:10 pm
rabidtictac wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:50 am
They'd rather chase those scam and shovelware dollarinos from day-one Early Access alphas that never get finished.
Either because the developers are trolls / scam artist, or incompetent fools who realized too late that using your one-time Patreon buck influx or your Early Access sales to fund your development is bound too fail if development takes too long and you run out of cash.
It's the latter. Many devs have next to no knowledge of project management, and when you don't do that in game development and don't stick to goals and targets when you " go at your own pace" shit can take forever. Especially if you fixate on one small, stupid thing that isn't working that should take a week but ends up taking over a month rather than drop it.

The final 10% of a game is the hardest to make, getting the core gameplay in there is the easy part even though it's the grunt work. Polishing it all up is what many of these amatuer devs struggle with without someone to oversea everything and pressure them. Publishers are assholes but one advantage a good one has is to make sure you meet your targets or you don't get money.

It's why Tim Schaifer has been terrible without a publisher breathing down his neck. People like him have had a publisher essentially force them to stick to a tight schedule and drop shit if it took too long forever, and not having that is what has lead to so many delays and outright cancellations. Every indie dev needs to learn project management and implement it.

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rabidtictac
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by rabidtictac » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:47 am

Go look up the DayZ "trees" shit. It's hilarious. DayZ has been in early access or alpha or whatever forever. The most exciting thing they've been working on for a long time has been tree tech. :D

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da PAC Nigguh
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by da PAC Nigguh » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:54 am

Poonoo wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:16 am
The final 10% of a game is the hardest to make, getting the core gameplay in there is the easy part even though it's the grunt work. Polishing it all up is what many of these amatuer devs struggle with without someone to oversea everything and pressure them. Publishers are assholes but one advantage a good one has is to make sure you meet your targets or you don't get money.
Explains why there's so much Early Access crap for sale. They reach a shitty Minimum Viable Product and put it up on Steam as-is. No rush to iron the bugs out when people are already shelling out cash for it. Plus you can get your fanboys to denounce any criticism as invalid because "The game isn't even finished yet! It's early access morons!"

This is why shit like Grim Dawn was E.A. for years and why Shit of the Avatar has been $40 "Pre-Alpha" since 2014.

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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by Some Sick Fuck » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:17 am

rabidtictac wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:47 am
Go look up the DayZ "trees" shit. It's hilarious. DayZ has been in early access or alpha or whatever forever. The most exciting thing they've been working on for a long time has been tree tech. :D
It's a czech company, so I know all about them. They are the most hillariously incompetent bafoons you've ever seen and only remain in bussiness because their niche is something noone else really does - so lack of competition allows them to exist. Not in terms of DayZ, but ARMA, their main series. DayZ was them watching the lightning in a jar repeatedly, and then fucking it up in ways I didn't even think it was possible.

They've wasted so much time on it, it's not even funny. We'll the only funnier thing is that their "lead" map designer spend about half a year in greek prison, because he was accused of espionage. I could talk about the DayZ spectacle for hours:
  • In the middle of 2012, Dean Hall creates DayZ mod - it's crude, barely working prototype with a lot of promise and a novel idea
  • Sometimes later in 2012, he gets recruited by BIS, they start working on standalone game
  • Between 2013, lots of bullshit about standalone gets tossed around in BIS, they talk about dog companions, base building, great expansions over the mod. At that time, two of the devs also get imprisoned by greek goverment for trying to steal the secrets of making the perfect almond cookies.
  • Dean Hall takes 2 months off to pull off Richard Garriot and instead of working on the game, since he's the project lead, he risks his life climbing some tall mountain - fullfilling his dreams
  • At the end of 2013, a super early alpha is finally released as standalone - turns out, it's almost as bare bones as the mod was when it first released, because they scrapped everything they've worked on and started from the scratch - seems reasonable at the time
  • In 2014, they announce that DayZ will be coming to consoles - which is yet to happen, and let's be honest, most likely won't ever happen
  • In that year, nothing significant fucking happens, except them working for about 6 months on a "network bubble" as Hall put it, which is basically them desperately adjusting an engine that was unfit for MMO
  • They show you "making of" videos, how you really shouldn't be doing motion capture, or how badly their engine works with what they capture. The animations have never been used to my knowledge.
  • Dean Hall then fucks off, and is proclaimed an antichrist. To this day, people send him death threats and blame him for the state of the game. Personally, I think it was for the best, he was somewhat charismatic, but seemed like an awful leader, at the very least, totally inexperienced.
  • They keep missing deadlines and their roadmaps are a joke - vehicles were promised in 2015 I believe, in 2017, one type is finally in the game. Mind you, vehicles were in the original mod from the very beginning.
  • Instead of trying to take the latest version of their engine from ARMA 3, they took the hybrid between ARMA 2 and 3, which created a lot of problems. The engine itself is a mess, it's roots are rotten to a core, and they've been fighting it for few years to basically rewrite it to support modern hardware. It's from Operation Flashpoint, which released 2001, and around 2012, it still supported only 1 CPU core efficiently if I remember correctly. How much time was wasted on the engine, noone can tell.
  • 2015, there is so much competition that DayZ is just one of many - roadmap for 2015 mostly wasn't completed: https://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/ ... ally_been/
  • In 2016, I think the big thing was the renderer, which was basically them again rewriting parts of the engine so you could actually get a decent FPS. That's another thing in this shit, no matter how good your computer was, most of the time, you would be getting below 30 fps, because the engine just couldn't take it. Still no base building or other things, stuff that mods of the original mod support quite well for a long time. I've stopped following the development.
  • They've rewritten the AI at least 4 times to my knowledge
  • They've replaced player models and animations at least once, maybe twice, they plan to change controls of the whole game to closer resemble games like Battlefield
  • In 2017, they're still around, finishing the 2015 roadmap - still no base building, barely any vehicles in game, they have some animals, etc. Dean Hall continues abandoning games, Bohemia Interactive has like 4 people working on DayZ, and most of the people moved on. After 5 years, DayZ is a crude, bit more expanded prototype with no promise whatsoever.
There are worse examples, but almost always it's about management failures.

Oh, and the trees: https://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/ ... _distance/ - this still happens, an effect I remember from Operation Flashpoint in 2001. At that time, it was necessary because of how resource intensive the game was, it was something novel, but 15 years later, they're still struggling to improve the technology.
Poonoo wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:16 am
The final 10% of a game is the hardest to make
I don't know about that, most of the Early Access games never get anywhere close to 90% completion.
da PAC Nigguh wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:54 am
No rush to iron the bugs out when people are already shelling out cash for it.
Main problem I see with Early Access is that they have to keep making functional builds for general public, which goes against the way video games are usually developed. I am sure that because of this, they waste so much time that in a normal development cycle would be invested purely, well, on development, not on showing off stuff and putting together working prototypes every month or so.
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mad bum
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by mad bum » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:32 am

Ever since I bought killing floor 2 it's been Yo ho ho a pirates life for me.
"Dude, 5 moves, I'm sitting on your arm until it's snapping. But to each their own."

RIP shitposting sig, DHI caters to whiny furfags.

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rabidtictac
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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by rabidtictac » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:06 pm

Jesus Christ, Killing Floor. I bought the first one. Played it, thought it was garbage, never again.

A good lesson for me about listening to what steam user reviews say.

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Re: Fuck steam, those sales get worse every year

Post by AngrySpoonySnob » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:38 pm

Ark is horrible too, even releasing paid DLC while being in early access...
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