Fighting Games

Talk about the life consuming, celibacy inducing hobby that is all the rage these days.
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Charlar
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by Charlar » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:28 am

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:55 am
Can you already bug rainbow Hadokens? Cause I would totally buy the game for that.




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Poonoo
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by Poonoo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am

I gave Blazblue another shot after Tictac said it had better defensive options, and I don't hate it as much. The problem though is that it is essentially Guilty Gear but slowed the fuck down, with each character having some gimmick Drive ability. The game is zonal as fuck because of the slow as fuck speed, which kind of "fixes" Guilty Gear's problem with being so damn fast that defending and waiting for an opening is fucking pointless. Guilty Gear is about all out fucking attack at lighting speed and precision, it's why the Final at Evo only went for 8 minutes while most of the others went for 20. To the point where in Xrd they give you the ability to break your opponents combo automatically if you have enough in your super meter, on the defensive end it is downright broken.

BlazBlue just slows it down and makes the characters more gimmicky, the game is cagey as fuck and isn't as fun in all honesty, even though technically it isn't as broken. And the characters are WAAYYY more fucking weeb, jesus fucking christ. In Guilty Gear the characters were designed in the 90s so they don't look bad (except the new ones, they are BlazBlue tier weebshit) but since Blazblue came out in 2008 the moe weebshit had infected it.
Old Black Man wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:11 pm
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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:35 am

Speaking of designs: I find it weird how almost every old GG character who got a redesign looks worse now, and how especially the ladies are dressed more modest than before (which is extra weird considering one of the new ladies is fighting in her underwear).
Poonoo wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am
Guilty Gear is about all out fucking attack at lighting speed and precision, it's why the Final at Evo only went for 8 minutes while most of the others went for 20. To the point where in Xrd they give you the ability to break your opponents combo automatically if you have enough in your super meter, on the defensive end it is downright broken.
Do you mean Burst? That's been in Guilty Gear since at least XX.
Charlar wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:28 am
VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:55 am
Can you already bug rainbow Hadokens? Cause I would totally buy the game for that.




(Not!)
?
Dammit I meant "buy". There's gotta me some cosmetic DLC that changes your Hadokens.
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Poonoo
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by Poonoo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:46 am

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:35 am
Speaking of designs: I find it weird how almost every old GG character who got a redesign looks worse now, and how especially the ladies are dressed more modest than before (which is extra weird considering one of the new ladies is fighting in her underwear).
Poonoo wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am
Guilty Gear is about all out fucking attack at lighting speed and precision, it's why the Final at Evo only went for 8 minutes while most of the others went for 20. To the point where in Xrd they give you the ability to break your opponents combo automatically if you have enough in your super meter, on the defensive end it is downright broken.
Do you mean Burst? That's been in Guilty Gear since at least XX.
I only just recently stopped playing fighting games "casually". That in depth tutorials in Xrd were made for people like me who didn't notice that shit before.
Old Black Man wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:11 pm
Also Lupa’s grandmother? Please, we know that hag was alive and well back then. She’s like the dude from Highlander, only a cunt.
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rabidtictac
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by rabidtictac » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:12 am

Poonoo wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am
I gave Blazblue another shot after Tictac said it had better defensive options, and I don't hate it as much. The problem though is that it is essentially Guilty Gear but slowed the fuck down, with each character having some gimmick Drive ability. The game is zonal as fuck because of the slow as fuck speed, which kind of "fixes" Guilty Gear's problem with being so damn fast that defending and waiting for an opening is fucking pointless. Guilty Gear is about all out fucking attack at lighting speed and precision, it's why the Final at Evo only went for 8 minutes while most of the others went for 20. To the point where in Xrd they give you the ability to break your opponents combo automatically if you have enough in your super meter, on the defensive end it is downright broken.

BlazBlue just slows it down and makes the characters more gimmicky, the game is cagey as fuck and isn't as fun in all honesty, even though technically it isn't as broken. And the characters are WAAYYY more fucking weeb, jesus fucking christ. In Guilty Gear the characters were designed in the 90s so they don't look bad (except the new ones, they are BlazBlue tier weebshit) but since Blazblue came out in 2008 the moe weebshit had infected it.
I like Blazblue's gameplay a lot more than GG. The designs are much worse though. I don't find it to be as zonal as you seem to imply, unless you are specifically picking a character who is a zoning character. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. If you pick a rushdown character, you don't really need to zone. Footsies are very important, as are your defensive tools like the faultless defense and various forms of quickrise and dashing.

Binding every character gimmick largely to one button is ok imo. Most characters in EVERY fightan game have a gimmick. Blazblue is just more upfront about where the gimmick is. That doesn't make playing a technical character easier though. It just gives you an idea of what moves might do what. Something you didn't mention is the extreme variance in how each character plays. Bang and Litchi are both rushdown characters, but they don't play anything alike. Celica and Ragna are both "beginner/easy" characters, but again, they don't play anything alike. And every character usually has more gimmicks than JUST what is on their drive button. A lot of them have completely unique mechanics, like Celica stocking "fake" HP to cash out or Bang having nail ammo, bumpers and the ability to set up FuRinKaZan games.

I don't like BB because of the designs. It's one of those games I like pretty much only because of the way it plays. I mostly play Tsubaki, Celica and Terumi, but there are a lot of characters with totally unique mechanics. Also, Tager as a grappler in practice is waaaaaay more interesting than Potemkin. A lot of the characters are more fun in practice than the GG counterparts. I basically stopped playing GG because BB mechanics are more fun and balanced for me.

Your opinion isn't "wrong" though, because this shit is personal preference.
RAPEMAN wrote:
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>liberal: ban x
>trump: yeah ban x
>liberal: no bro x is awesome

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Poonoo
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by Poonoo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:18 am

rabidtictac wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:12 am
Poonoo wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am
I gave Blazblue another shot after Tictac said it had better defensive options, and I don't hate it as much. The problem though is that it is essentially Guilty Gear but slowed the fuck down, with each character having some gimmick Drive ability. The game is zonal as fuck because of the slow as fuck speed, which kind of "fixes" Guilty Gear's problem with being so damn fast that defending and waiting for an opening is fucking pointless. Guilty Gear is about all out fucking attack at lighting speed and precision, it's why the Final at Evo only went for 8 minutes while most of the others went for 20. To the point where in Xrd they give you the ability to break your opponents combo automatically if you have enough in your super meter, on the defensive end it is downright broken.

BlazBlue just slows it down and makes the characters more gimmicky, the game is cagey as fuck and isn't as fun in all honesty, even though technically it isn't as broken. And the characters are WAAYYY more fucking weeb, jesus fucking christ. In Guilty Gear the characters were designed in the 90s so they don't look bad (except the new ones, they are BlazBlue tier weebshit) but since Blazblue came out in 2008 the moe weebshit had infected it.
I like Blazblue's gameplay a lot more than GG. The designs are much worse though. I don't find it to be as zonal as you seem to imply, unless you are specifically picking a character who is a zoning character. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. If you pick a rushdown character, you don't really need to zone. Footsies are very important, as are your defensive tools like the faultless defense and various forms of quickrise and dashing.

Binding every character gimmick largely to one button is ok imo. Most characters in EVERY fightan game have a gimmick. Blazblue is just more upfront about where the gimmick is. That doesn't make playing a technical character easier though. It just gives you an idea of what moves might do what. Something you didn't mention is the extreme variance in how each character plays. Bang and Litchi are both rushdown characters, but they don't play anything alike. Celica and Ragna are both "beginner/easy" characters, but again, they don't play anything alike. And every character usually has more gimmicks than JUST what is on their drive button. A lot of them have completely unique mechanics, like Celica stocking "fake" HP to cash out or Bang having nail ammo, bumpers and the ability to set up FuRinKaZan games.

I don't like BB because of the designs. It's one of those games I like pretty much only because of the way it plays. I mostly play Tsubaki, Celica and Terumi, but there are a lot of characters with totally unique mechanics. Also, Tager as a grappler in practice is waaaaaay more interesting than Potemkin. A lot of the characters are more fun in practice than the GG counterparts. I basically stopped playing GG because BB mechanics are more fun and balanced for me.

Your opinion isn't "wrong" though, because this shit is personal preference.
Keep in mind I dusted off Calamity Trigger from 2009 on the PS3, so some of the characters you mentioned are foreign to me. The gameplay may have improved since then, but in Calamity Trigger the movement speed was one of the slowest I have seen in a fighting game, so when I played the only option was to keep your distance then dash in. Footsies didn't have much of an effect when I played, though in later versions that may be the case.

And I don't necessarily hate each character being varied, that is actually a positive, I just felt the Drive button is a bit of a cheap way to do it design wise for some characters. I know in some cases it's not just the drive button that determines what makes them different, but as you said it is very on the nose about the character gimmicks. Noel and Taokaka are two that come to mind when I think of that, Toakaka's was essentially a long range dash attack with what feels like an easy input for a special move, and with Noel you just press the Drive button and then you start doing crazy chain combos. Not all characters are like this, Bang and Jin's use of it is pretty damn cool (though I found Bang annoying to play, though that's because he is likely technical and needs time to get used to).

While the variation isn't as blatant in GG it is still there and enough for me to enjoy it. Chipp is fun to use when taking advantange of his teleports and speed, Sol is a decent all-round entry level character and Ky is a good zonal character as well. I miss Zappa though, I loved being able to switch between three stances in a fight. But the thing with GG is that I prefer the speed and how attack focused it is without it being straight up like Marvel vs Capcom. Fights tend to have swings in momentum in them where it is easy to make comebacks without that cheap Ultra bullshit in SF4 or that Rage shit in Tekken, and the better your precision is in attack the better you will go since their is a ton of depth and options attack wise.

Admittedly yes, defensively GG has always been shit, though it's kind of meant to be obnoxiously aggressive with it's loud heavy metal theme. This is why Razorfist wasn't full of shit when he said Guilty Gear is metal as fuck, even in it's game mechanics the game has that heavy metal spirit.

I gave Street Fighter EX 2 plus a shot too after seeing the Arika game, and initially I didn't like it since it felt like a clunky Street Fighter but I got used to it. The coolest thing about it though is your options for using your super meter, which at the time was rare and in some cases flat out stolen later on in SF4. You can chain two supers together when you cancel one of them, use Excel Combos which essentially increase the speed your strikes so you can do crazy combos, use a Guard Break to get Stun on your opponent along with regular Supers and full bar supers. The bar is divided into 3 chunks for use, so you could potentially guard break someone, excel combo and then use a super.

The core mechanics though outside that is basic like Street Fighter 2. It looks like the new Arika fighting game is way more smooth though so hopefully it is a step up.
Old Black Man wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:11 pm
Also Lupa’s grandmother? Please, we know that hag was alive and well back then. She’s like the dude from Highlander, only a cunt.
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rabidtictac
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by rabidtictac » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:22 pm

I'm going to go back and read your post, but the immediate thing I saw was

>calamity trigger

I personally think the series doesn't get good until Chrono Phantasma or Continuum Shift II. The roster starts out WAY too fucking small and a lot of the core characters have playstyles I don't enjoy. About the only characters I think are fun in the starting roster are Bang, Litchi and Tager. Everyone else a shit until the DLC characters started to get added. 13 or Lamda or whoever the hell is ok IF you want a hardcore zoner playstyle.
RAPEMAN wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:42 pm
>liberal: ban x
>trump: yeah ban x
>liberal: no bro x is awesome

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Re: Fighting Games

Post by rabidtictac » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:34 pm

Poonoo wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:18 am


Keep in mind I dusted off Calamity Trigger from 2009 on the PS3, so some of the characters you mentioned are foreign to me. The gameplay may have improved since then, but in Calamity Trigger the movement speed was one of the slowest I have seen in a fighting game, so when I played the only option was to keep your distance then dash in. Footsies didn't have much of an effect when I played, though in later versions that may be the case.

And I don't necessarily hate each character being varied, that is actually a positive, I just felt the Drive button is a bit of a cheap way to do it design wise for some characters. I know in some cases it's not just the drive button that determines what makes them different, but as you said it is very on the nose about the character gimmicks. Noel and Taokaka are two that come to mind when I think of that, Toakaka's was essentially a long range dash attack with what feels like an easy input for a special move, and with Noel you just press the Drive button and then you start doing crazy chain combos. Not all characters are like this, Bang and Jin's use of it is pretty damn cool (though I found Bang annoying to play, though that's because he is likely technical and needs time to get used to).

While the variation isn't as blatant in GG it is still there and enough for me to enjoy it. Chipp is fun to use when taking advantange of his teleports and speed, Sol is a decent all-round entry level character and Ky is a good zonal character as well. I miss Zappa though, I loved being able to switch between three stances in a fight. But the thing with GG is that I prefer the speed and how attack focused it is without it being straight up like Marvel vs Capcom. Fights tend to have swings in momentum in them where it is easy to make comebacks without that cheap Ultra bullshit in SF4 or that Rage shit in Tekken, and the better your precision is in attack the better you will go since their is a ton of depth and options attack wise.

Admittedly yes, defensively GG has always been shit, though it's kind of meant to be obnoxiously aggressive with it's loud heavy metal theme. This is why Razorfist wasn't full of shit when he said Guilty Gear is metal as fuck, even in it's game mechanics the game has that heavy metal spirit.
So the thing about footsies is you need to incorporate dashing into footsies. Walk speed in BB is trash because you never want to walk except when you're holding back to defend. It's all about dashing, instant air dashing and air positioning. It's a much more aerial game than Street Fighter, but at the same time, all the defensive options give you flexibility to play how you want to within that.

If you want to see examples of what I'm talking about, look at tournament footage of Lambda players. They're using a hardcore zoner in a game where you can almost fullscreen instant air dash. So their defense game is a lot more involved than throwing out hadoukens a billion times. There's a lot of positioning and jockying around, and careful use of knockdown moves and air combo options to keep dashing rushdown opponents away. This is part of why I like the game a lot better than some shit like SFIV, because even zoners are much less brainless as a playstyle.

Bang is a very technical character. He's a heavy rushdown character who focuses on the use of tools and tool/item management. I find that shit extremely cool. Evo footage of Bang in tournaments is fucking awesome. Since you're playing the older version, you can charge FuRinKaZan very easily (any 4 clean hits off his drive will do it) and then go into FRKZ mode for an eight-way instant air dash. It disables your block button tho. The key to winning with Bang is to manage your nails. Each nail is an air fireball and each air fireball = a way to keep yourself safe while dashing around, dashing away, dashing to approach, etc. You can also YOLO your nails if the enemy is near death by doing the air fireball Drive version, which throws 3 nails that bounce around and are very hard to avoid. Bang's umbrella super is pretty bad, however.

I don't enjoy Noel or Taokaka as characters at all. Arakune is a gimmick fighter and should have been DLC (as a comparison, valkenhayn was one of the first DLC characters and gets way more play). Nobody plays him. Hakumen is ok but very slow-paced. Tager is cool but a pure grappler. Litchi and Bang are dope. Litchi is much easier to use (and always ranks higher in tiers) because the staff functions as nails but doesn't use any ammo. Jin and Ragna are whatever. Jin and Ragna suck shit compared to Ky and Sol.

If this new blazblue crossover thing has blazblue mechanics with other arcsys characters, that'd be worth a purchase from me. Blazblue's big problem is boring or shitty character designs, outside of a few cool ones like Azrael, Terumi, Hakumen, Tager, Bang and Litchi. Blazblue as a franchise gets better and better the further you go, because all the later characters are more fun than the OG cast.

Zappa is probably my favorite guilty gear character. Chipp and Eddie are my best characters, but Zappa is dope as fuck. Baiken is a cool character design, but she badly needed a movelist expansion last time I played her.
RAPEMAN wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:42 pm
>liberal: ban x
>trump: yeah ban x
>liberal: no bro x is awesome

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Re: Fighting Games

Post by Guest » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:01 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:58 pm
Abigail! What happened to the "all characters in season two will be completely new OC"? What, where the two earlier dipshits somehow badly received? Who would've expected that? :lol:
Completely new characters = never before playable in a Street Fighter.

Abigail's never been playable in any game prior to this.

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rabidtictac
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Re: Fighting Games

Post by rabidtictac » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:23 pm

Doesn't change the fact Abigail looks like shit and is just another final fight pull. They're really determined to never put Haggar in a street fighter game, aren't they? They'll put Holly Wood in SFV before that.
RAPEMAN wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:42 pm
>liberal: ban x
>trump: yeah ban x
>liberal: no bro x is awesome

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