RIP FRANCE

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Charlar
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by Charlar » Sun May 14, 2017 3:05 am

I thought Aikido was about throwing, joint-locking, striking, pinning techniques coupled with training with the sword, staff and knife? Are you sure it was traditional Aikido because it sound like the style the Master used was Ki Aikido which is the one of the two that focus on chi/ki
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Kugelfisch
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by Kugelfisch » Sun May 14, 2017 3:23 am

Aikido is 100% bullshit. The inventor of it was already doing that whole non-touch fuckery. In the best of times they show you some arm twists and hand grab submissions. Stuff that doesn't work at all in any real situation or even in a match, thus they don't have any. I have never heard of Aikido with weapons but I'm sure it exists as well.
Aikido has done really well to pass as halfway legit but in the end it's non-practical nonsense at best and pure magic bullshit at worst.

Take this for example:

The dude trained one of the less bullshit forms of Aikido for 13 years that's mostly about grabs and shit. It's completely removed from reality.
Fuck's sake, the guy is an Aikido Youtuber and has now decided to train other actual fighting styles to get some practical fighting skills and maybe use some Aikido as a supplement because in all actuallity, in an actual fight with a resisting opponent, Aikido just plain doesn't work and the training doesn't prepare you for jack shit.
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Charlar
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by Charlar » Sun May 14, 2017 3:35 am

So grappling and throwing doesn't work in a fight? I feel stupid thinking it could work
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rabidtictac
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by rabidtictac » Sun May 14, 2017 4:45 am

I did Aikido for a bit. It's pretty worthless, at least whatever I was taught was sure worthless and I never saw any good shit in my time learning. Not like I went quadruple blackbelt or anything though lel. I'm sure there are some ok aikido practitioners out there because there's ok EVERYTHING out there. If the dude is fit and has experience then they can "make" it work for them. But all that spirit science chi shit is garbage. Toss all that out. Thing is, you toss all that chi shit out and you're left with Judo/Jujuitsu, so whatever.

MMA isn't the end-all, be-all either. Tapout faggots like to think it is. MMA is just another combat sport and it's useful to the extent that any combat sport is useful, IE boxing, kendo, any other combat sport with contact.

I think the "most" legit thing I ever saw in Aikido was some dead-simple armbar shit, and if you combine that shit with some strikes to soften up the guy so they can't resist, then yeah sure, it'll work. 'Course, Aikido won't teach you the strikes because you're supposed to use the chi of the earth to off-balance the dude or something.

Kugel, Aikido isn't Systema-tier levels of bullshit. But a lot of those spiritual martial arts have a lot of garbage in them because they had some sort of religious significance. They'd teach students shit that didn't work so that it would look cool, and then get the students believing in spirit powers, and tell them that the moves would work if they just believed in the Force hard enough.

So what martial arts do I think are ok? It always depends on the teacher. In America, Karate and Tae Kwon Do are USUALLY McDojo bullshit. You might learn some basic punches and kicks, and I won't discount the value of that since so much of martial arts is mastering the basics, but they don't have much else. Brazilian Jujuitsu/MMA all seem ok despite tapout queers who worship MMA and think nothing else works. Boxing seems legit enough for what it is. Kung Fu is a COMPLETE crapshoot. Anything billed as "self-defense" is often bullshit, but there's good stuff too. Anyone who promises a sure-fire way to take on someone with a weapon when you have nothing? Peddling bullshit 110% of the time.

Grappling works, the problem is the KIND of grappling, Charlar. Small-circle isn't going to work outside of the dojo most of the time because it requires way too much to go just perfectly. Bouncers grapple people all the time and they don't use fingerjoint locks.

https://nightclubsecurityconsulting.com ... -bouncers/

First google result. Read it, good info in here. I pretty much agree with everything. The most important thing for any martial artist is to master the absolute, rock-bottom basics. Those building blocks are the core of everything. Hit. Block. Dodge. Basic grappling. Very basic. Drill that shit a billion fucking times so you can do it no matter what. Doesn't matter if you're the 110th Dan master of Karate-you can still benefit from basic punch drills.

When I was new to martial arts, I thought it was all about learning new moves and skills. I thought I had to move up ranks and learn the "advanced" techniques. Most of the advanced shit is about your mentality. The really important "moves" happen at the white belt rank IF your dojo/gym is teaching you right.

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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Sun May 14, 2017 7:22 am

Makes sense. Really no use pulling off an advanced "finisher" if you can just kick a dude instead. A bit like how archers lost to riflemen.

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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by Poonoo » Sun May 14, 2017 10:45 am

rabidtictac wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 4:45 am


MMA isn't the end-all, be-all either. Tapout faggots like to think it is. MMA is just another combat sport and it's useful to the extent that any combat sport is useful, IE boxing, kendo, any other combat sport with contact.
Especially since it has so many fucking rules, making it impractical in real fights:

http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules ... lations#15

Look at that list. Especially these ones:
Butting with the head
Eye gouging of any kind
Biting
Hair pulling
Fish hooking
Groin attacks of any kind
Putting a finger into any orifice or any cut or laceration of an opponent
Small joint manipulation
Striking downward using the point of the elbow
Striking to the spine or the back of the head
Kicking to the kidney with a heel
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh
Grabbing the clavicle
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent
Stomping a grounded opponent
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck
If you are a tapout faggot, you bet your ass that this is a list of tactics if you start shit. The only time MMA would be useful in real fights more than any other Martial Art was the old shit in the 90s where Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie were around since there were only two rules, no biting or eye gouging.
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Saoirse Ronan

Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by Saoirse Ronan » Sun May 14, 2017 5:35 pm

Hoyce Gracie was the most overrated "fighter" on the planet. His family started the UFC to show what a badass he was, then he got his ass kicked by a Kempo guy who uppercutted him for two minutes straight,

Speaking of martial arts, from my lowly viewpoint you should train boxing and some kind of grappling: IE wrestling, Judo, Russian Sambo.... TKD looks cool, but if you got roughed up on the street you aren't going to be throwing flashy jump kicks. MMA is for turbofags. It's just thigh kicks and shitty punching.

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rabidtictac
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by rabidtictac » Sun May 14, 2017 7:05 pm

At least train enough grappling that you know what to do when you get grappled, yeah.

Oh and Ronan, the thing is, if by "MMA" you mean Tapout fags, then yeah I agree. But when you train a striking style and then train in some grappling like you said, that could technically also be called "MMA" aka "mixed martial arts." If someone asked you what you trained and you trained boxing, kenpo and greco-roman wrestling, the simplest response would be "MMA."

That's what I mean about "MMA" being ok aside from Tapout fucktards. I mean, shit is mixed. The problem imo with Tapout and MMA and all that shit is the attitude of people who think that a basic crash course in shitty boxing + crash course in shitty wrestling makes them superman because they saw some dudes rolling around in a ring and were told that's what legit street fighting is all about. "I'm a well hard man" etc. Somebody who trains hardcore in boxing and wrestling, or karate and wrestling, with good teachers is going to be pretty decent, most times.

One thing all combat sports are good for is getting you used to hitting with contact and being hit. People used to shit on Judo and karate/kung fu were way more popular with fightfags than boxing. But now people realize the value of those sport martial arts for training certain things. Combat sports are at least better at teaching than the spiritual bullshit martial arts.

My impression of TKD is that the good TDK fighters don't use any of that fancy shit. Now, I will say that there are some limber dudes who can kick high, and IF you can kick high and accurately and IF everything works out well for you (you don't trip, don't get tackled, don't slip, don't miss), getting kicked in the jaw or head or face is not fun.

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Kugelfisch
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by Kugelfisch » Sun May 14, 2017 7:11 pm

MMA as the thing it currently is is just another sport. But the idea of mixing a variety of martial arts is useful.
When it comes to specific martial arts it depends super heavily on the dojo. Generally speaking, if there's no full-contact sparring or competitive matches it's likely complete bullshit.
Boxing/kickboxing, a couple of judo throws and some BJJ will likely serve you best. Against multiple attackers or knifes you better just run the fuck away. For women I'd suggest strong, animal-repellent pepper spray and maybe a bright LED flashlight.

My problem with Aikido, even without magical crap, is that it's grabs are all some neat and tidy shit. It looks cool to just grab somebodies wrist and twist them to the ground, looking like it took no effort. But that shit just doesn't work with some guy that wants to fuck you up.
Especially Judo is much, much better with it's throws. They actually work and almost always lead to you being on top of your opponent so you could just stand up or pummel the fucker.

My father did TKD for many years with the goal of being able to fuck people up. It depends a fuckload on the dojo you're going to. You can get semi-spiritual crap that isn't even aware of punches, sports-oriented crap which barely knows about punches and more practical stuff.
It was always the greatest stuff to watch K1 and see some TKD guy going against boxers or kickboxers. You could tell if they were good just by looking at their guard. If they had their hands down you knew already they either land one lucky kick or they are going to get KOd really badly. :lol:
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rabidtictac
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Re: RIP FRANCE

Post by rabidtictac » Mon May 15, 2017 5:01 am

Small-circle motions are all about looking pretty and fooling you into thinking they COULD work.... But you're in a controlled dojo setting and everything there works in your favor. Including, frustratingly, sometimes even your practice partner. It always pissed me off when someone would do throw drills and the partner would be going along with it. I get going into a breakfall so you don't get your ass kicked by gravity, but don't do a fucking tumbling routine when I'm just tapping your shoulder a bit.

That thing about "depends on the teacher/dojo" is the real take-away from all our sperge. I won't write off any one style entirely because there are always talented, athletic and knowledgeable teachers out there. I've heard of "combat" versions of shit like Tai Chi and AIkido (Aikijujitsu I think it's called) where they strip out the spiritualism and just teach positioning, throws, strikes and it starts to look a lot like any other martial art at the higher levels.

Incidentally, that's WHY style is less important than the teacher being good:

All martial arts start to look the same at the higher levels. Not in the way tapoutfag matches do, but because every skilled martial artist at high levels in ANY martial art is going to know some grappling (even in a striking style), footwork, timing, spacing, striking (even in a grappling style) and their mental game is going to be on point.

That said, as a general rule, a lot of TKD, Karate, Kung Fu, Tapout-style MMA places etc are teaching either total garbage or can only get you started on some fundamentals.

You can tell Judo was intended for practical use, even though it is a combat sport, because they do shit like "lapel grab throws" rather than "twist this joint in just this exact way at this time with this perfect posture and using the chi of the earth" throws. One benefit of combat sport martial arts is (unless you get those aura sparring fags who won't even make contact) their moves are trained to actually be used in stressful situations (competitions) against resisting opponents. Wrestling has the same benefit, although my inner faggotry prevented me from enjoying rubbing against sweaty men. It was a very uncomfortable feeling. :D

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